Stephen Colbert has some ideas to help Republicans woo women voters. Click here to watch.
The comic controversy of the day is that Dan Slott, in the current “Spider-Verse” event that promises every single version of Spider-Man EVER (well, the ones that Marvel has legal access to), the cast of Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends are brutally killed off, even made fun of in the process. Personally, I think this is tasteless and pointless. This was a generation’s first Spider-Man.
Now, I’d be lying if I said I cared about “Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends”, but this reminds me of “Turtles Forever”. When that came out, some fans of the 1987 cartoon were upset, feeling their show was being trashed and disrespected. Personally, I thought it was on the nose, but at the end of that special, it’s the 1987 characters that save the day, stopping the 2003 Shredder from wiping out all of existence.
So, 1987 TMNT fans, the next time you say that “Turtles Forever” trashed your childhood show, remember these pages from “Spiderverse” and think about this… the 2003 Shredder did not brutally kill your childhood heroes. He was defeated by them.
You know if Dan Slott was going to go through with this tasteless act, HE COULD’VE AT LEAST killed off that STUPID DOG Ms. Lions. But he couldn’t be bothered to at least kill THE ONE CHARACTER no one would miss from that universe. :(
The toy line faced the same struggle as the cartoon to find an audience. “TMNT still had space in the toy aisles but didn’t do huge,” Steve remembered. “They weren’t exciting. Where were the vehicles? Where was the blimp? Where was the Technodrome?”
Part two of my talk with Steve Murphy, writer and former Creative Director of Mirage Studios, is now live at Action Figure Fury. We focus on the 4Kids era, why the toys from the 2000’s weren’t as fun and some impressions on the new Nickelodeon TMNT series.
I recently rewatched the bulk of the 2003 series. It’s remarkable how, well, ashamed it seemed of the whole mutant animal thing.
Prior to Turtles Forever, the 2003K Turtleverse has SIX traditional mutant animals (the turtles, Leatherhead and Splinter). There are a lot of horrorshow mutants, but in the “Humanoid animal that can talk and fight” category, six. Sure, there were Triceratons, Usagi Yojimbo and Gen, but for a series that ran for as long as it did, it was sparse.
This winds up producing a drab toy-line. Hun isn’t compelling as an action figure. You have more than one dude in a coat and lots of generic ninja characters. Even the superheroes were in relatively drab duds.
There’s literally nothing Hun brings to the table that couldn’t have been accomplished by a monstrous bear mutant. If Touch and Go had been a cheetah and a hippopotamus, maybe they could have gotten on shelves.
I get that they were going for Mirage here, but liberties could have been taken. Beyond even that, though, it robs the series of a rooting theme: talking animal people that have exciting fights.
Well, Peter Laird had a ton of input on the series, and “less mutants” was likely one of his deals, since in other places he’s stated he felt it would make Splinter and co. less special/interesting if there were a lot of mutants.
Though maybe they could have gone the Archie route with anthro animal characters who were not capital-m mutants but aliens, secret races, cryptids, magical beings, etc.
Let me get this straight. They’re treating a show that ran for seven seasons, had 155 episodes and one TV movie as a failure? IN WHAT WORLD IS THAT A FAILURE?!
Gargoyles - 65 episodes
Spec Spidey - 26 episodes
Young Justice - 46 episodes
Batman the Animated Series - 85 episodes
Beast Wars - 52 episodes
These shows were considered relative hits! But seven seasons, 155 episodes and a movie is a failure?
Also, I agree with that. TMNT 2k3 had a very good run, and really, wait for 2000s-era nostalgia to happen before you declare the show forgotten.
I used to be neutral on mutants, but before I stopped watching the 2012 show, it seemed like they were mutating everybody and not dealing with the fallout, because mutants were inherently interesting/sold more toys just by virtue of existing, so now I’m wary of any wish for “moar mutants”.
And given how much Peter Laird had to do with TMNT 2k3 being good, if he said less mutants, then by god, less mutants.
Thing is, these shows aren’t just about the show. They have to move merch, and from the articles, it looks like TMNT 2003 didn’t do that well. Being unable to move merch killed Young Justice, I wouldn’t be suprised if that was part of Spectacular SpiderMan, Beast Wars was a flat out advertoon that ended when the toyline it supported ended, and BTAS is only 85 episodes if you ignore the New Batman Adventures rebrand, which brings it up to 109, and a movie, at which point it shuffled away to make room for a sequel series and Justice League.
Now, everyone’s milage is going to vary, but here’s my general take.
I’ve been onboard for every incarnation of this franchise. As a toy collector, I found the 2003 line dull as dishwater. As an old Mirage fan, I liked seeing a lot of the old Mirage studio material, but it wasn’t as fun in an animated form and, to be honest, some of my favorites didn’t get adapted or had the fun stuff taken out of them (Really, no Cosmic Quartz Digital in the Renet storyline, no weird geriatric superheroes in the Justice Force episodes, no Complete Carnage and Radical). The Battle Nexus tournament was a less fun version of the Archieverse’s Intergalactic Wrestling, and on it goes. It did melodrama well without an element of balance it just didn’t work. Same reason I found Transformers Prime good, but not particularly compelling.
The show was workable, it was ok, but it never blew me away and there were elements I just didn’t like. Agent Bishop got tiresome extraordinarily fast. I didn’t care for Hun. Kurai’s character arc seemed like it was doing the box-step, sure it moved but it always wound up where it started. Like I said before, the Battle Nexus tournament just reminded me of better setups from other Turtles Media, and so forth.
To be honest, the 2012 series gives me a lot more of what I like. The turtle personalities are engaging and play off each other well (first version of Mikey that is actually funny, for instance). The mutant villains are fun. The Shredder is ultimately menacing and driven. Kurai’s conflict actually goes places. The Kraang are fun yet dangerous and it pays homage to a lot of TMNT eras while putting fun twists on things. I appreciate that the one time they’d be justified in reusing the same character model across all four turtles they didn’t. But it’s not going to be for everyone.
Though, I can’t really see the whole ‘not showing the fallout from mutation’ given the whole Pulverizer/Mutagen Man storyline, the rapid degeneration of Baxter, the lengthy ordeal they had to go through to get Mr. O’Neil back, etc.
Ultimately, it’s a series called “Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles”, you can’t back away from the crazy with that title.
The 2k3 series became my favourite TMNT cartoon
pretty fast, once I watched it last year. There were a lot of faults, especially once the fourth season finished, but when it was on, it was ON.
I just can’t fault it for not having enough mutant toys. I like monsters and mutants a lot, but as long as the story’s good in other ways, it’s a moot point. Non-main-character-mutants are a neutral thing for me: as long as they’re well-written, I don’t care how many there are, but they aren’t a necessary component of a TMNT incarnation, at least in the philosophical view. And like another poster said, 155 episodes is nothing to sneeze at.
The TMNT franchise has always been “crazy” in a lot of ways, and 2k3 still was in its genre-mixing, Triceratons, and the very concept of the main characters. Whatever you would call the “spirit” of TMNT, it was alive and kicking in the 2k3 show.
2k12 just bores me to tears. There’s nothing from it that I couldn’t get from any other TMNT incarnation, but the main reason I dropped it was that it played “hot potato” with plot points, dropping them and then picking them up again at arbitrary moments, then offering quick fixes or quick turns back to a previous state. Its story just seems to skim the surface of whatever it’s doing.
That, and I didn’t care about or for any of the characters. At first I enjoyed Splinter and Baxter, my old staples, but they both got tiring really quick. And while 2k3 Mikey was annoying, 2k12 Mikey needs to be stuffed into a woodchipper.
As for mutation, I was talking about early seasons where one-shot villain mutants constantly disappeared for a while, the quick double-mutation with Kirby O’Neil, and turning Karai into a snake instead of dealing more with her change in family situation. Mmmaybe if she turns out to be articulate in her human form and the plot point is developed, I’d call it a win.
Agreed on the 2k12 TMNT cartoon. Especially Mikey, I’m not sure how ANYONE could watch him and think he was genuinely funny. Gods, Greg Cipes Beast Boy voice can make just about ANYONE annoying.
It seems to me that a character cannot remain static, even in an ongoing, open ended publishing format like comics. If you freeze a character into a certain set of parameters, usually for convenience of other writers, or readers, of merchandisers, whatever, then before long that character runs the risk of becoming sterile.
Writers and ultimately readers may stop thinking of the character as a vital, real three-dimensional being and instead come to perceive him or her as a conglomeration of stock elements. Plug ‘em in, wind ‘em up, turn him/her/them loose and put them through their stock paces.
Nothing changes. Nothing grows. Stories may still be technically exciting, but they’ve lost all heart. There’s no passion, nothing to excite the readers and hold them interested.
Whilst this applies to many characters or franchises (both in and out of comics), I feel it’s especially appropriate for Spider-Man and what’s been done with him in recent years, and what they tried doing with him going back to even the 1990s.
Joseph Fink, for. the. win.
You are not weak, you are not dumb, and you are not selfish- for being a normal human being. Don’t put yourself down for these things!
They are literally putting millions of people in danger.
Vaccinate your kids. Don’t put other kids at risk.
if they were only out to kill themselves off, that’d be one thing. It’s that their stupidity is going to kill the rest of us.
I don’t mind dying. I mind dying because of stupid enormously.
college is apparently not where vermithrax learned that maybe the problem is vermathrax isn’t actually charming or handsome